Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Discutiamo qui di tutte le questioni più "tecniche" riguardanti meccanica e principi di funzionamento degli strumenti musicali
Rispondi
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

Come promesso lo scriba MaMut ha deciso di slogarsi le dita per trascrivere tutto il contenuto del:

C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments, 1942
https://www.saxophone.org/museum/publications/id/318.

L'impresa è assai ardua ma ad aiutare il nostro si è aggiunto Pta noto disegnatore egizio per le illustrazioni.
Ovviamente il nostro scriba trascriverà tutta l'opera per parti dovendo egli scrivere per i Sacerdoti del Tempio di Abu Simbel noti per non amare ritardi nelle consegne.
Quindi abbiate pazienza con il nostro scriba se impiegherà un certo tempo a concludere l'opera : Sig :

FOREWORD

Seldom does a manufacturer publicize the deficiencies of his product.
On the rare occasions when he does, it is done usually as an excuse for telling how he has overcome the deficiency and made the product better.
The past tense is almost invariably used in speaking of a deficiency; a deficiency almost never exists in the present.
But in publishing these bulletins, Conn admits deficiencies exist in Conn instruments - deficiencies which exist today and have not yet been overcome!
This is not a daring thing to do, however, for two reasons:
1) All makes of wind instruments have the same defects, regardless of whether they are admitted or not.
2) Conn has done more to overcome these defects than any other manufacturer, and consequently admitting the defects is less damaging to Conn than similar admissions by others.

We have another reason for admitting these deficiencies. If users of Conn instruments understand the shortcoming of wind instruments, they will not expect performance by Conn instruments beyond what can reasonably be expected.
To advertise an instrument as being "perfect" when by all the laws of physical science it is somewhat less than perfect, is to create unnecessary dissatisfaction and invite complaints.

Naturally these bulletins are not for general consumption. They are published for the more serious minded musicians and teachers - people who will take the time and trouble to think these problems through, people who really want to know the facts.

Much of the information in these bulletins is published here for the first time anywhere. Only in the minds and in the note books of acoustical research engineers have many of these facts existed before. We feel it is time this information is released to the public, so that many of the fetishes and much of the hokum about wind instruments can be eliminated.

We do this, not to establish alibis for the shortcomings which exist in wind instruments so that musicians will be contented with imperfect instruments, but so they will have patience and understanding while Conn's Research Laboratory - the only full-time research laboratory in the band instrument industry - labors with renewed vigor to make Conn instruments easier to play and brings them closer and closer to perfection.

C. G. Conn LTD.


il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

PRACTICAL PROBLEMS IN BUILDING WIND INSTRUMENTS

Why Certain Notes on Cup Mouthpiece Instruments Are Not Perfectly in Tune With the Equally Tempered Scale.
cameradaria.jpg
WHY IS AN OLD INNER TUBE LIKE A WIND INSTRUMENT? Don’t smile – they are surprisingly alike in one respect. If you push the bump at “A”, the lump at “B” rises; and if you push both “A” and “B” down together, the bulge at “C” gets bigger.

THAT’S JUST WHAT HAPPENS IN A WIND INSTRUMENT, as every band instrument manufacturer knows to his eternal sorrow. And there are certain notes in the scale of all wind instruments which are naturally either sharp or flat. And when you correct one note, another goes bad. When you flatten a sharp note, you may make other notes either sharp or flat. When you sharpen a note which is flat, you may flatten some notes in one part of the scale and at the same time sharpen notes in another part of the scale. When you correct one fault, it’s ten to one you create a new fault somewhere else – or maybe two or three new faults!

IN THE NATURAL SCALE on cornets and trumpets, there is an “E” (acousticians call it the 5th mode of vibration) which is .14 of a semitone flat. Based on this open note are the Eb, D, and Db, made by adding the 2nd, 1st, and 1st plus 2nd valves.

All these notes from E to and including Db are very flat on an uncorrected instrument. This is indicated in curve to left, below.
FLAT_SHARP.jpg
Here, the dotted line indicates perfect intonation. Where the plotted curve lies to the lef of this dotted line, the notes are flat; where the curve lies to the right, the notes are sharp. Data for these plotted curves were secured from many tests as measured by the Conn Chromatic Stroboscope.

WHEN THIS GROUP OF NOTES is corrected and made less flat, the notes above this group are made sharp, as is shown by the curve on right, above. This seems like a desirable compromise, in this particular instance, for we get rid of the flat 5th mode notes, and players do not seem to mind the sharpened top register. In fact, some of them like it, especially those whose lips do not enable them to get the top notes easily. But when the same kind of thing happens in other parts of the scale, generally musicians “raise cane”.

BEWARE OF FIFT COLUMNISTS – good advice for all patriotic Americans. Good advice for all good musicians is Beware of the Fifth Mode of Vibration. To this “borer from within” can be attributed a large share of the difficulties we have with intonation in cup mouthpiece instruments. It is the “fly in te ointment”, the “joker in the deck”, the “thorn in the flesh”, and the “nigger in the woodpile”. We limit this baleful influence to cup mouthpiece instruments because it is not a problem on reed instruments. But now, let’s do a little musical Sherlock Holmes work.

MY SPECTACLES, WATSON! Pleas notice that the notes below are grouped in brackets labeled 8th, 6th, and 5th. Also notice that the first note in the bracket is an open note; this indicates that it is played “open”; that is, it is played without valve or slide. Notice that the other notes and that over each is shown the valve or valves which are used to play this note. In the case of slide trombone, the slide positions are shown below the notes. (Ndr. Riporto esclusivamente il pentagramma relative alla tromba/cornetta per gli altri strumenti si rimanda alle immagini di pagina 2 del documento trovabile nel link di apertura)

Cornet, Trumpet, Alto Horn, Mellophone (Baritone Horn in treble clef)
8_6_5_4.jpg
WHAT ABOUT THIS 8th, 6th, or 5th? Well, simply, it means that these notes within the brackets are based upon the 8th, 6th, or 5th mode of vibration. For instance, on cornet: those notes within the bracket labeled 5th are produced by playng the open E (th 5th mode of vibration); then the Eb is played by adding the 2nd valve slide tubing; the D is played by adding the 1st valve slide tubing; the Db, by adding the combination of 1st and 2nd.
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

WHAT’S A “MODE OF VIBRATION”? You’ve really got something there! It’s not quite as difficult to explain as the Einstein Theory – but almost. Did you ever play a bugle? You’ve heard it played, anyway. You know the bugle uses only 4 or 5 notes. Well, these notes are the bugle’s 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and (sometimes) the 2nd modes of vibration. These open notes are called the “natural
scale” or “chord of nature”. Every cup mouthpiece instrument has such a scale, the actual sound of the notes depending upon the pitch in which the instrument is built.
chordofnature.jpg

Here it is: call it the bugle scale, the natural scale, the chord of nature, or what have you. Below each note is indicated its mode of vibration. Every cup mouthpiece instrument is capable (theoretically) of playing these open notes. We say theoretically because some cannot play the top and bottom notes. The bugle, for instance, has trouble with the 1st, 7th, and 8th. The French horn has trouble with the 1st, but plays on up to the 16th mode.

HOW CAN YOU TELL THE 3rd MODE FROM THE 1st? When the complete length of tubing of an instrument is occupied by a single unit consisting of node and antinode, the instrument sounds its fundamental, or “pitch note”. This is your old friend, the 1st mode of vibration. The second way, or mode, in which the air may vibrate gives a tone an octave higher, and this time the tubing is occupied by two units – two nodes and two antinodes. When there are three such units, you have the 3rd node mode, etc., etc.

BUT WHAT ARE NODES AND ANTINODES? When an instrument emits a musical tone, the air inside does not vibrate uniformly throughout. At some spots the air vibrates vigorously and these places are called anti-nodes. At others there is a minimum of motion and these place of “no motion” are nodes. The illustration on the left (N.d.r. qui riportata invece sotto) shows how lines widely separated are used to mean an antinode, and brought together they mean a node.
node_antinode.jpg

GETTING BACK TO OUR 5th MODE PROBLEM! It’s easy to raise the pitch of the 5th mode of vibration. There are 10 spots in the instrument where this may be done. When the 5th mode is played there are 5 nodes in the tonal column. See the diagram on next page (N.d.r. qui riportata invece sotto).
modivibrazione.jpg
NODES AND ANTINODES IN A CUP MOUTHPIECE INSTRUMENT
(Nodes where lines cross, antinodes where lines are widely separated). Note vertical dotted line, which indicates where enlargement at antinode of 5th mode is made. Observe that this enlargement falls approximately at node of 3rd mode. See text for further discussion.

By building a constriction in the tubing where any of these nodes occur, the pitch of the 5th node can be raised. Thera are also 5 antinodes. By making an enlargement in the tubing where one of these antinodes occurs, the pitch of the 5th node can be raised. You, therefore, have 10 chances to win – but you always seem to loose!

The foregoing chart illustrates the story. The final column shows how many hundredths of a semitone (called cents, for convenience) each of these modes of vibration tends to deviate from the equally tempered scale. A plus sing before the number means sharp, a minus sign means flat. Note that the 3rd mode and 6th mode are sharp two cents, so for all practical purpose these notes are in tune. But look at the 5th mode – it’s 14 cents flat. It’s the one which creates all the trouble we are talking about. The 7th is also 31 cents flat, but it is so flat it is useless in the equally tempered scale and we ignore it; but we cannot ignore the 5th. How we compromise this flat 5th mode is largely the story of good or bad cup mouthpiece instruments.
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

NOW, LOOK AT DOTTED LINE in drawing on page 4. Observe it is drawn through an antinode, 5th mode of vibration. If we make an enlargement in the spot in the tubing where this particular antinode occurs, we’ll make the 5th mode sharper. But look what it does to the other modes. This enlargement in the tubing falls near the place where an antinode of the 6th and of the 8th modes occurs. That makes them somewhat sharp also. This is substantially what happens in some instruments – the 6th and 8th modes are sharp. This seems to be a good compromise, for there is a general demand for a sharp top register, as stated on page 2.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE THIRD MODE. Observe that the dotted line passes pretty close to a node of the 3rd mode wave. Now, an enlargement at a node FLATTENS the mode of vibration. This is what generally happens in actual instruments. The flat F on the BBb bass is a case in point, for it is the 3rd mode on the BBb bass. We have people complain about the flat F on the bass. We know it is somewhat flat. But what we do not get credit for is pushing up the 5th mode so these 5th mode notes are in tune. Many basses whit a good F have very flat 5th mode notes, not only the D, but the notes based on this D. Most good bass players prefer to put up with a slightly flat F as long as they can have these 5th mode notes in tune, rather than have a good F and constantly fight a very flat D, Db and C.
lenti-rosa.jpg
NOW YOU CAN TAKE OFF THE ROSE GLASSES! Guess we’d just as well tell you now that the diagram on page 4 reveals only half the trouble. What actually occurs in nature is not quite as simple as this diagram would indicate. The diagram serves to explain a fundamental principle, and the facts are substantially true, as explained; but Old Mother Nature is not quit so simple and naïve as this diagram would indicate.

IT’S LIKE THIS – ONLY DIFFERENT! In a perfectly cylindrical instrument the nodes and antinodes would lie in the instrument just about as indicated in our diagram on page 4. But all cup mouthpiece instruments have some tapered sections as well as cylindrical sections. That factor serves to vary the positions of the nodes and antinodes. Actually, something like the following more nearly represents the facts.
conicita.jpg
THE ABOVE IS A DIAGRAM ONLY and is not intended to be a picture of what actually occurs inside an instrument of tapered bore. It does illustrate the point involved here; namely, that in a tapered bore instrument, the nodes and antinodes do not lie as neatly and evenly spaced as indicated in our sketch on page 4 – actually the units are long in the small part of the bore and are short in the wide part of the bore. Beyond this let’s no force our drawing.

THIS DOES NOT ALTER THE PRINCIPLES we’ve been trying to set forth, but it makes their application greatly more complicated, as you can easily see. It prevents us from making a neat little drawing and predicting in a priori fashion where each node or antinode will fall within the instrument tubing. Before we can make an enlargement here or a constriction there, in order to sharpen or flatten certain notes, we have to locate by actual and painful experiment just where each node or antinode falls for each mode of vibration.
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

THERE’S MANY A SLIP ‘TWIXT THE CUP (MOUTHPIECE INSTRUMENTS) AND THE LIP! (N.d.r. purtroppo non esiste un possibile gioco di parole analogo in italiano - slip=errore lips=labbra - il senso della frase è che ci sono molti errori tra il bocchino e le labbra) It’s a bad pun but a vital truth. The “lip” or embouchure of the player is supposed to correct all the shortcomings of intonation and response in wind instruments. Many of the “slips” made in playing could be avoided if band instrument manufacturers could discover more accurate scales.

CONN RESEARCH LABORATORIES have tackled this problem in an intensive way of late years. Many new scale have been discovered and as research goes on, till other improved scales will be developed. But we ask all those who play or sell instruments and who teach and direct bands and orchestras to try to understand the many difficulties which are involved.

ONLY FULL-TIME RESEARCH LABORATORY. Conn has the only full-time research laboratory in the entire band instrument industry. Here, specially trained experts devote their entire time to finding out how to make more nearly perfect instruments. These are the men who developed the sensational Chromatic Stroboscope, which measures intonation to 1/100th of a semitone. These are the men who are finding out through research how to build better and still better scales in musical instruments.

KNOW IT ALL. We don’t claim to “know it all”, but we are doing more research than all other manufacturers combined. We are not content to accept the old and faulty scales as they have been produced for a hundred years. We want more accurate scales in wind instruments, and we believe musicians want more accurate scales. In the past few years Conn has made many contributions to better instruments, and we feel that when better instruments are built, Conn will be the one who will build them.

(N.d.r. con questo si conclude la prima sezione della pubblicazione).
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

II Why Valve Slides Fail to Give Perfect Intonation DOES 1+2=3? NO! NOT ON VALVE INSTRUMENTS. In other words, the first valve slide plus the second valve slide does NOT equal the third valve slide – the third valve slide is longer than the combined lengths of the other two.

WHY THIS BAD ARITHMETIC? In textbooks you’ll find it stated that the 2nd valve adds a semitone, the 1st valve adds 2 semitones, and the 3rd valve adds 3 semitones; also that valve 2 plus valve 3 equals 4 semitones, that one plus 3 equals 5, and that 2 plus one plus 3 equals 6. This is only approximate, as we shall see. We shall also discover why valves are made as they ar, and why the scale of every valve instrument can be only approximately correct, why it can be only a compromise scale.

VALVES IN COMBINATION ARE SHARP. Assume that the 2nd valve adds one semitone, the 1st adds 2 semitones, and the 3rd adds 3 semitones. But one, 2, or 3 semitones respectively are added ONLY when the valves are used singly. When valves 2 and one are combined, you do not add EXACTLY 3 semitones, for this combination is about .12 of a semitone sharp. Likewise, the combination of 2 and 3 is .16 sharp; of one and 3 is .32 sharp; and of 2, one and 3 is .55 sharp.

IT’S PLAIN ARITHMETIC. Valves used singly may be satisfactory, but when combine them you get sharp results. Let’s see if we can give you some actual figures on the euphonium. For convenience we’ll assume this instrument is 100 inches long, although actually it is somewhat longer. The 2nd valve should add about 6% of this length for a semitone, so we make this valve 6 inches long (6% of 100). The 1st should add about 12%, so we make it 12 inches long; and the 3rd should add about 19%, so we make it 19 inches long.

BUT, when you push down valve one, your horn becomes 112 inches long with the addition of the 1st valve (100 plus 12 equals 112); and when you add valve 2 to this length, you should add 6% of 112, or 6.7 inches. The 2nd valve is fixed at 6 inches, however, so you’re .7 of an inch short, and consequently sharp. (Are you still with us?)

WHEN YOU COMBINE VALVES ONE AND THREE, see what happens. When you push down valve one, your horn becomes 112 inches long. When you add the 3rd valve, you should add about 19% of 112 inches, or 21.28 inches. Actually, however, your 3rd valve is fixed at 19 inches, so you’re over 2 inches short, and consequently sharp.

THE MORE YOU ADD, THE SHARPER YOU GET. If you combine valves one, 2 and 3, the resulting note is nearly a full semitone sharp. As already pointed out, when you combine one and 2, you should add 18.7 inches, but you are short .7 of an inch.
With valves one and 2, your horn should be 118.7 inches long, and when you add the 3rd valve you should add 19% to this total length, or 22.55 inches. The 3rd valve is fixed at 19 inches, however, and so you are 3.55 inches short. This added to .7 of an inch lost on the one plus 2 combination totals 4.25 inches short. This discrepancy is nearly equal to the total length of valve 2 and would make this 2 plus one plus 3 combination equal to a little over 5 semitones instead of 6 and consequently nearly a semitone sharp.
eufonio.jpg

WHERE THIRD VALVE IS USED. Above are shown all the regular positions in which the 3rd valve is used. In every instance it is used IN COMBINATION with the 1st valve or 2nd valve, or with both 1st and 2nd valves. Since standard practice calls for the 3rd valve to be used ONLY in combination, its length is calculated for best results when used in combination with other valves and NOT for use singly.

ALLOW FOR SHRINKAGE. We know the 3rd valve in actual usage is going to “shrink” and notes made by using the 3rd valve in combination will be sharp; therefore we make it long enough to allow for this shrinkage. In other words we make the 3rd valve longer than it should be if used by itself (longer than one plus 2) so that it will be of more nearly correct length when used in combination. This can be done because it is not used by itself but only in combination with other valves.

HOW LONG SHALL WE MAKE THE THIRD VALVE SLIDE? This is not an easy problem to solve. If we make it long enough to counteract the .32 of a semitone sharpness of the one plus 3 combination, it will TOO LONG for the 2 plus 3 combination, for this combination is only .16 of a semitone sharp. Furthermore, it will still not be long enough to counteract the .55 sharpness of the 2, one, and 3 combination. That will leave the former combination FLAT and the latter SHARP.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO VALVES? Not much can be done with valve slides 2 or one, for they are used NOT ONLY in combination but also singly. A valve cut to proper length for use singly will be to short for use in combination and, conversely, a valve cut to proper length for use in combination will be too LONG for use by itself. Since the use of valves one and 2 singly is more important than their use in combination, their length is fixed primarily for correct intonation when used singly.

YOU CAN’T HAVE YOUR CAKE and eat it, too. Although it is possible to cut the 3rd valve slide long for use in combinations, what is correct for one combination is either too short or too long for others. Also, the 1st and the 2nd valve slides can be cut to correct length for use singly but they will always be too short for use in combinations. What to do? What to do?
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

FINGER RING. Many trumpets and some cornets have a finger ring on the 3rd valve slide. This ring is used for extending the 3rd valve slide, especially for low C# and F#, which use all 3 valves in combination and which are therefore quite sharp. The 3rd valve slide cut to length so that the combination of 2 and 3 or of one and 3 are satisfactory will obviously be too short for a combination of all 3 valves. Here is where the finger ring comes in handy to further increase the length of the 3rd valve slide.

TRIGGER ON 1st VALVE SLIDE is another effort to adjust the length of valve slides to compensate for the “shrinking” effect of valve used in combination. The one and 2 combination is .12 of a semitone sharp and this can be overcome by extending the 1st valve slide whit the trigger. Length can also be added for the one and 3 combination, which is naturally .32 of semitone sharp, and for the combination of all 3 valves, which is .55 of semitone sharp.

OTHER COMPENSATING INVENTIONS have been tried on valve instruments but none of them has been widely adopted. One especially ingenious invention was developed in England which automatically ads a loop of tubing when valves one and 3 are used together. Another shorter loop is added when valves 2 and 3 are used together. These loops are not brought into operation when valves are used singly.
rubegolberg2.jpg
RUBE GOLBERG INVENTION. In order to eliminate the faults due to valve combination, we ought to have six (6) individual valves. The six valve slides would vary one semitone in acoustical length, from one semitone to six semitones. Such a valve system would look like a Rube Goldberg invention and obviously would be impractical. Such valves, especially on a euphonium or bass, would have more “plumbing” on them than a public building!






FOURTH VALVE PRATICAL ON EUPHONIUM AND BASS. In Europe a 4th valve has been used even on cornets and trumpets but in this country the 4th valve has found acceptance only on lower voiced instruments, such as euphonium and bass. These low voiced instruments use the lower range more and it is here that the 4th valve is most helpful in obtaining better intonation. It is usually made equal to the combined lengths of valves one and 3, but it has a slide which can be pulled to make it longer. Such a length is capable of lowering an open note more than 5 semitones.
quartopistone.jpg
BETTER INTONATION. Above, C in the 2nd space can be played with valves one and 3, but the note is sharp, as already pointed out. By using the 4th valve (which is longer that one plus 3), the note is better in tune. The same is true of F below the staff. Likewise B on 2nd line played whit all 3 valves, is quite sharp. By using valves 2 and 4, the note is not so sharp. The same applies to E below the staff.

OTHER USES OF 4th VALVE. On instruments with only the regular 3 valves there is a gap between the E below staff and the low Bb. The 4th valve makes it possible to play the 5 chromatic notes from Eb on down to and including B natural. How this is done is shown in the second part of the music above. The intonation of these 5 notes, however, is obviously not any too good. The “reason why” further emphasize the limitations of valves in combination.
HERE'S WHY. Still assuming, for convenience, that the euphonium is 100 inches long, when you push the 4th valve down you add approximately 34 inches of tubing and throw the horn into F. This “horn in F” therefore is about 134 inches long. To lower the “pitch note” F a semitone (E below the staff), you use the 2nd valve and you should add about 6% of the total length of tubing of the horn in F, or 6% of 134 inches. This would be 8 inches. Since the 2nd valve was built to add a semitone to the 100 inches of the Bb euphonium, it is only 6 inches long; hence it is 2 inches short for serving as a 2nd valve for the F horn. Naturally the 1st and 3rd valves are proportionately short also and all notes produced by using these valves are quite sharp. The player does the best he can do to “lip” these notes into tune.

DOUBLE FRENCH HORN HAS TWO SETS OF VALVES. It is for the foregoing reasons that the double horn must have two sets of valves, one set for the horn in Bb and another set for the horn when it is played in F. Valve slides which are of the proper length for the Bb horn are obviously too short for the horn when it is played in F: Conversely, if the valve slides are cut to proper length for the F horn, they will be too long for the Bb horn.
DOING IT THE HARD WAY. Some “double” French horns are made with a single set of valves for both Bb and the F horn. The slides usually are a sort of compromise in length, midway between the proper lengths for the Bb and the F horns. Under this arrangement, the slides are a little too short for the F horn and a little too long for the Bb horn. This way of doing it makes it easier on the manufacture (because he has to make only one set of valves) but it makes the job of playing harder on the musician!
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

DOES NOT APPLAY TO F TROMBONE. The same criticism does not apply to the bass trombone, because the hand slide positions take the place of valve slides and these can be lengthened. When the bass trombone is charged from Bb to F, the length is increased about 39 inches, from about 111 inches to about 150 inches. These figures closely approximate actual lengths). Whereas it takes about 7 inches of tubing to lower an open note on the Bb trombone a semitone, it takes about 9 inches to lower an “open” note on the F trombone a semitone. Since the total length of the slide is fixed, there is sufficient length for 7 positions on the Bb trombone but only 6 positions on the F trombone, and the sixth position is definitely short and consequently sharp.
trombonesibfa.jpg
IN THE DIAGRAM ABOVE, the top figures indicate the 7 positions for the Bb trombone, while the bottom figures indicate the 6 positions for the trombone in F. This illustrates graphically that the positions for the F trombone are longer than those for the Bb trombone.

IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO THIS: Valves whose slides are of the proper length for correct intonation when use singly produce sharpened notes when used in combination. All scales of valve instruments are therefore compromises. Parts of the scale can be favored, but only at the expense of some other parts. You can cut a valve slide so a certain note or group of notes will be perfect in intonation but when you use this same valve for other notes it will be too short or too long.
Stanlio-e-Ollio-8373.jpg
IT’S ALMOST AS BAD AS ARMY UNIFORMS. As the story goes, the rookie is asked, “How do you want your uniform – too big or too little?”. There is no individual tailoring for Army privates, and it is impractical to tailor-make a separate valve slide for each valve note in the scale. All we can do is make the best possible compromise.

SURVEY OF MUSICIANS AND TEACHERS. Knowing how to cut off the valve slides to length is not, in this case, nearly as important as knowing what musicians and teachers expect from their instruments. We can build the valve slides any way they want them (within the physical limits pointed out) – the important thing is to determine how the majority of good musicians and teachers want valve slides built, what compromise they like best.

TO DETERMINE THESE FACTS we have conducted many extensive surveys. The way we are building our valve slides today is the best possible compromise, according to the statements from leading musicians and teachers; but our research is being carried on continuously and from this research will come constantly improved instruments. They will not be “perfect” – they can’t be with only 3 or 4 valves – but they’ll be the most nearly perfect it is physically possible to build.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conn ciò (scusate il gioco di parole : Rolleyes : ) si concludono gli interventi relativi agli strumenti a pistoni. Mi prendo un po' di pausa prima di affrontare la sezione relativa agli strumenti ad ancia. Se doveste riscontrare errori rispetto all'originale reperibile al link vi chiedo la gentilezza di segnalarmeli nell'apposito post sui commenti che provvederò alle correzioni necessarie.

Spero che i dati qui contenuti aiutino tutti ad una più profonda conoscenza dei nostri amati strumenti quando suoniamo o quando ci accingiamo all'acquisto di un nuovo strumento, vintage o moderno che sia.
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

AAA Cercasi utente volonteroso per terminare la pubblicazione del presente studio di C.G. Conn. Servirebbe qualcuno che trascriva i testi contenuti nelle ultime cinque pagine che sono relative alle problematiche agli strumenti ad ancia, in particolar modo ai sax. Per la stesura delle immaggini poi ci penserò io ma in questo momento il tempo da dedicare è veramente esiguo e vorrei concludere il tutto. In caso il benemerito utente non volesse "figurare" direttamente possiamo dialogare privatamente e poi provvederò io o altro mod a caricare sul forum i testi.
Grazie della collaborazione attendo fiducioso : Yahooo :
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
kkongiu
Member
Member
Messaggi: 97
Iscritto il: 15/07/2022, 17:35
Thanks dati: 67
Thanks ricevuti: 21

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da kkongiu »

Ciao,
Molto interessante, sperando di fare cosa gradita ho creato il pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

Grazie Gianluca per sicurezza dato che è su drive, l'ho spezzettato e lo carico anche qui.
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-1.pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-2.pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-3.pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-4.pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-5.pdf
1942 C.G. Conn Practical Problems in Building Wind Instruments-6.pdf
Non hai i permessi necessari per visualizzare i file allegati in questo messaggio.
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Avatar utente
Marco Muttinelli
Site Admin
Site Admin
Messaggi: 3004
Iscritto il: 12/04/2019, 10:39
Thanks dati: 458
Thanks ricevuti: 381

Re: Problemi pratici nella costruzione degli aerofoni

Messaggio da Marco Muttinelli »

Riporto l'attenzione sull'argomento ricordando che eventuali commenti vanno inseriti nell'apposito thread qui:
viewtopic.php?t=2130
il CONNsole
mail: c.g.conn.expert@gmail.com

Trumpet
22B New York Symphony 1940; 12B Coprion Special 1940; 8B Artist 1965; 6B Victor 1968
Buescher The 400 T225 1937

Cornet
Perfected Wonder e Perfected ConnQueror 1907; 82A Victor 1925; 38A Victor Special 1937; 38A Connstellation 1968


Fluegelhorn
Couesnon Monopole ?


Mouthpiece
serie Famous Artist: BI-220, BI-225 e BI-420 (tp)
serie Precision: 4 (tp)
serie Improved Precision: 4 e 5 (tp); 3 e 4 (cn)
serie Connstellation: 5 B-N, 5 B-W, 7 B-N, 9 B-N (tp)
serie E-Z Tone: Elkhart, Abilene, Eastlake (tp)
Denis Wick: 4FL e 4BFL (fl); 4 Classic (cn)
Rispondi